System testing - Whose responsibility is it....???

[sameenkhan]

Hi Guys,

During E&I Project, there is important stage when systems are tested...

Now big question comes to mind:

1) Who makes the system test procedures i.e. either System engineer or Integration Engineer or Design Engineer or QA/QC Engineer etc.
2) Who wets and approves the test procedures i.e. Design Engineering Dept, Quality Dept. etc.
3) If QA/QC Engineer don't make the test procedure then what do they do except being there during test & doing documentation??

I have never been able to understand the role of QA/QC Engineers in a Project...

Regards,
Sameen

[ruby_ridge]

I am an E&I engineer. I usually get the vendor to submit a test procedure and I will check and the Project authority will approve. Alternatively I will write it myself and approved as before. QA/QC are notinvolved

[sameenkhan]

Hi Ruby,

So does it mean that QA/QC Engineers are there to do nothing???

Regards,
Sameen

[ruby_ridge]

No, QA and QC have an important role in an organization - they are just not involved in the writing of test procedures

[moe]

QA/QC engineers they are not particularly involved in writing such procedures but they're the ones whose approved/accepted or rejected it.

[sameenkhan]

Hi Moe,

So QA/QC engineers, they are not part of design & engineering then how come they have the right to approve/reject test, as they don't know what is the objective of the test??

What is the role of QA/QC engineers in organization... either they are just there to make sure, we fill up all the forms/documents... or they do something useful in the organization or project??

Regards,
Sameen

[moe]

Hey Sameen,
the QA/QC engineer has more roles/duties than you could possibly imagine ! right below are some of the QA/QC responsibilities during the construction of any project/plant:
-Review and approval of WPS, PQR,
-Project construction inspection specifications,
-NDT procedures and material inspection as per ASTM.
-Line check along with contractor as per IFC drawing and P & ID.
-witness of Pressure test as per applicable specification (ASME B 31.3).
-Punching of line along with contractor and restatement of line before pre-commissioning.
-Attending the final walk through for MCCR and PSSR.
-Cooperation and coordination with contractor and management for various inspection activities.
have a good day

[sameenkhan]

Hi Moe,

You have described QA/QC Engineer roles for mechanical project, any mechanical engineer can perform such responsibilities with no difficult, as most of work is physical rather than technical. Whereas, I&C Project, a great deal of different technologies are used and without knowing & understanding of each one... you can even understand how system is designed and laid out... Furthermore, in I&C you have to understand the functional aspects of I&C systems... Doesn't matter whether it is field instruments, DCS or PLC or intermediate devices or complete process control...

Considering that you have only summarized the role of QA/QC engineer, then most important aspects for I&C system is ignored in the job scope of QA/QC engineer that is understanding of I&C system and its functional testing which also involve software, hardware, integration, sub system testing etc.....

I have never seen QA/QC engineer any where who is capable of doing such thing... But I have not seen them involved in I&C project... which raises a question what are their roles..... just to sign document or be there during the test....???

Best Regards,
Sameen

[moe]

Dear Sameen,
well, speaking of which !! some of the I&C enginners doesn't even know how to read P&ID or Isometric !! at any rate I'm not trying to underestimate I&C engineers by any means.
& YES SIR, QA/QC engineers they don't have to necessarily get involved or be compared to I&C engineers because obviously everyone has it's own roles & responsibilities & their job titles says it all.
regards,

[sameenkhan]

Hi Moe,

Firstly, Yes, you are right in a way that some I&C engineers don't know how to read P&ID & Isometrics and following are the reasons for that...

1) You'll not find any engineering institute teaching I&C (I&C Engineering is mixture of electrical, electronics, mechanical, chemical, IT etc.)... it is easy to understand or pick up things with which you are familiar with, for mechanical & chemical engineers it is not that much difficult because they have read & learned those things with which they encounter in the industry, for new I&C engineers they have to start from scratch...
2) You must have met an engineers who is new to this field
3) In Pakistan, there is no adequate collaboration between Universities & Industries..
4) Courses taught universities are more theoretical than practical...

If an experience I&C engineer is not able to read such drawings then its an individual competence, can't blame all or some I&C engineer....

Thought process that you have applied to I&C engineer is not OK.. if same thing is applied to chemical engineers by saying that they don't know how plant is running or to mechanical engineer that they don't know how machine or equipment is design or working.... Blaming some one or highlighting other weakness does not solve the problem, problem is still there...

Secondly, without comparison you can't establish requirements, roles & responsibilities... otherwise, why hire engineers from different disciplines, why not just hire only one engineer to do everything....

I acknowledge that fact that we should not specifically compare roles of QA/QC Engineer with I&C engineer, their roles, responsibilities are totally different.. but such comparison helps to understand organizational processes and project execution processes...

My query was related to I&C system testing and understanding of QA/QC engineer role during that process..

Hoping that you understand what I am talking about....

Regards,
Sameen